Interview with Gordon Ryan

This was originally written for Jordan Edward's Business Jiu Jitsu podcast. You can check out his website here. Some might find it strange that there is a correlation between the principles of business and the principles of a grappling based martial art such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, but for Gordon Ryan, arguably the greatest submission grappler on the planet, this correlation is a lot more obvious. Over the last ten years, the 26-year-old New Jersey has spent countless hours on the mat. As a teenager, Ryan would travel all the way from the Jersey town of Monroe Township to Renzo Gracie’s Academy in Midtown New York with teammate and older brother figure, Garry Tonnon. There he would grow in both skill and mentality under the tutelage of both Renzo and philosophy PhD graduate, John Danaher. As the pound for pound grappler on the planet and current ADCC champion, Gordon has made what most would consider a fortune in both prize money and in instructional DVD sales. This success has largely been rooted in following Danaher’s own personal philosophy – “Just focus on being the best in the world and everything else is easy.” With this philosophy, he has cultivated a “never give up” mindset. This mindset can be seen in many of Ryan’s competitive matches. Back in 2017 at fourteenth Eddie Bravo Invitational event, Ryan faced off against future teammate Craig Jones. Unlike most other BJJ tournaments, there is no point system in these events and competitors must submit each other within a ten-minute round, or go to an overtime position, where one athlete is given a dominant position to mount an aggressive submission attempt. Here, Ryan found himself in Jones’ armbar, a move in which the attacker uses their hands to control of their opponent’s wrist, whilst using their legs to clamp over the defender’s face and chest in order to apply pressure on the pivot point of the elbow in order to break the arm. Most would choose to “tap out” at this point, but Gordon snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. With 10,000 dollars on the line and an undefeated EBI streak up to this point, tapping simply wasn’t on the menu for Ryan. He explains “Mechanically, because he didn’t have me in a static position, you keep working towards an escape. Same thing in life, essentially as long as you can keep moving forward in life and have a goal in mind, you’re eventually going to get there. I mean it’s going to be a rocky road but my goal was “keep working towards an escape, eventually get the elbow off the breaking fulcrum and eventually you’re going to be out and you’re going to be in offence again. Same as anything in life, work towards a goal and eventually you’ll get there.” Ryan would make a series of micro movements ““you have to keep making those micro movements and keep moving and figure a way out of it. This is something I’m looking to explore and get to the heart of it.” Ryan escaped, then submitted Craig with a deep rear naked choke, with the footage being witnessed by millions of viewers online since. This victory has done wonders for his own personal brand. Encouraging thousands to purchase his instructional videos. He speaks about this in a way marketers can understand - “You have to be entertaining in some way. Whether it’s on the mat, or inside the ring, or off the mat”. Much like the legendary boxer, Mohammed Ali, Ryan aims to be entertaining both on and off the mat. “Historically those who are exciting in and out of the ring are the most financially successful.” This has led to Ryan getting into social media “beefs” with rivals, whilst also sharing some polarizing political opinions. Despite insisting on the importance of not getting caught in the persona, he insists his aim is to “spread common sense and logic”, or encourage thought processes in “how a normal, successful person should think.” This pride in doing things his own way, and the willingness to lose sponsors if they attempt to prevent him from voicing his opinions. On both the mats and in social media comment threads, Gordon likes to apply similar tactics – “When you cause a dilemma – you put your opponents in a position where they have to choose the lesser of two evils but either way you are making them work for you.” On the mats, Gordon has done this to the highest level and made it look easy and when it comes to trash talking, when someone insults him, he will present a dilemma so that the insulter has no choice but to look stupid This concept of creating a dilemma is maybe a particularly passive aggressive way to manage a business relationship, but in the event of a hostile takeover, it may be a tactic worth considering. Gordon’s Kiwi-American coach, Danaher presented this idea during a cameo appearance on the Showtime drama “Billions”. By navigating a conversation in two ways and presenting a dilemma it may be possible to win negotiations. BJJ coaches often train their students to work as if they are following flow charts, when an opponent makes a decision, a relevant counter can be made. Over time, these moves can become ingrained in muscle memory through repetition. In business, this may be a bit like considering leverage and control, before applying it on the relevant pivot points of any negotiations or exchange. In business and Jiu Jitsu, this understanding of leverage comes from practice – whether it is a case of practicing outside heel hooks until 3 in the morning, or researching different aspects of a business. As both a dominant grappler and entertaining personality, Gordon has come to understand his own leverage within the Jiu Jitsu market. The Jiu Jitsu organizations are aware that from a financial perspective, he doesn’t have to compete. His earnings have put him in a position where he never has to step on the mats again, but his popularity means that he may well bring more eyes onto a big event than anybody else. Like many other successful people, Ryan has felt the squeeze of high state taxes issued in New York. Consequently, it’s a bigger hassle for him to fly across the country to compete for $15-20,000 than it is to stay, train and make another set of bestselling instructional videos. If they are to entice him to draw in the spectators, they need to provide the necessary respect “The King” deserves. He understands though, that respect is a two-way street. He applauds BJJ fanatics founders Mike Zenga and Bernardo Faria for their honesty and openness in conducting business. Although the sport has moved from stale high school sports halls to arenas, in part due to great broadcasters such as Flow Sports increasing the number of spectators, the Jiu Jitsu community is a relatively small and tight knit one. There is a small amount of money being fought over between competitors and organizations. If Gordon can develop a relationship with someone who isn’t mean spirited or self-centred, he can be happy. There have been various setbacks with the new gym setup in Puerto Rico and Ryan will be contemplating his business decisions over time to come. Although he isn’t overly keen on developing a gear brand in an already overly saturated market, he is interested in learning the technical side of the marketing and the technology involved. Ultimately though, he is prepared to take risks - to be successful in BJJ or business – expect your arm to get broken in half and you still have to win.